Welcome to episode 239 of the Nerd Journey Podcast [@NerdJourney]! We’re John White (@vJourneyman) and Nick Korte (@NetworkNerd_) – two technology professionals with backgrounds in IT Operations and Sales Engineering on a mission to help others accelerate career progression and increase job satisfaction by bringing listeners the advice we wish we’d been given earlier in our careers. In today’s episode we share part 1 of a discussion with Kenneth Ellington, detailing how he got into cybersecurity, what prompted him to become an instructor, some of the gaps in professional networking skills for college students and what can be done about it, and how Kenneth encourages people to invest in themselves as a business owner of Ellington Cyber Academy.

Original Recording Date: 07-03-2023

Topics – Meet Kenneth Ellington, A Step into Cybersecurity, Tell People What You Want, Internships and Community Involvement, Building Courses and Learning to Network, The Life of an Instructor, Overcoming Objections to Self-Investment, A Mindset Coach

2:43 – Meet Kenneth Ellington

• By day, Kenneth Ellington is a Senior Cybersecurity Consultant specializing in SIEM and SOAR technologies such as Splunk, QRadar, Microsoft Sentinel, or other solutions in the blue team realm. Kenneth designs solutions for various clients based on their needs.
• When he was younger, Kenneth had no interest in technology. He enjoyed cooking during his high school years.
  • Kenneth’s father has been a software engineer for many years and pushed Kenneth and his brother to get into technology as a career.
  • Kenneth’s father made him do a code academy course over the summer during his middle school years, and Kenneth didn’t like it at all. Kenneth knew at that time that software engineering was NOT something he wanted to do.
• After graduating high school, Kenneth began college coursework focused in business administration which later became business management at the University of South Florida (USF).
  • Around the time of his junior year, Kenneth focused on IT (information technology) for greater job prospects after some advice from his father.

4:31 – A Step into Cybersecurity

• Kenneth worked in the deli at Publix Supermarket throughout his time at USF.
  • Today, Kenneth tells his students at Ellington Cyber Academy (more on how he got there later) to “make sure people know what you want to do so they’re able to speak on your behalf when you’re not inside the room.”
  • Kenneth told all of his managers at Publix that he wanted to focus on IT as a career.
    • In one particular instance, the Publix store manager asked Kenneth if he wanted to meet the director of cybersecurity for Publix as part of this director’s visit to the store. Kenneth said yes!
    • Kenneth got to have a 1-1 meeting with Rick (the cybersecurity director who visited). Before this meeting Kenneth had no idea what cybersecurity was or that Publix even did it.
    • During this meeting, Rick encouraged Kenneth to apply for an internship in cybersecurity the following year. Rick also gave Kenneth a list of things to study to give him the best chance of getting into the internship, including…courses to take, some conferences to attend, and the chance to shadow members of the cybersecurity team for a couple of days.
    • After doing everything on the list from Rick, Kenneth interviewed with the cybersecurity team at Publix in March and ended up getting the job.
• Back then Kenneth had no idea what he was doing (around 2018). He had heard about cybersecurity in the news but didn’t really understand what the job was. The way a career in cybersecurity was described by Rick sounded really cool to Kenneth. In addition to that Kenneth had wanted to work at Publix corporate for some time.
  • Kenneth thinks Rick saw his passion and his drive early on.
  • Kenneth also tells us that Rick was the type of person who wanted what was best long term for Kenneth, even if it would not be at Publix.
  • The internship in which Kenneth participated was 3-4 months.
  • Nick loves the fact that Kenneth was given a training plan to prepare him for getting into the internship. It reminds him of something similar our guest Chris Williams did for a person wanting to be a cloud engineer (mentioned in Episode 231).
  • “I literally started the minute I got off work. I was very excited.” – Kenneth Ellington, on working through the list of recommendations a cybersecurity leader encouraged him to take to get into the industry
• Some of the specific recommendations for Kenneth were…
  • In Tampa, where Kenneth grew up, there are two major cybersecurity conferences. Kenneth was encouraged to attend both, which he did.
    • BSides Tampa – you can also follow the page on LinkedIn
    • The Florida Center for Cybersecurity is in Tampa, and they also host a conference.
  • Kenneth was also encouraged to study for and obtain the Splunk Core Certified User certification or at least do a fundamentals training.
  • Study for and obtain a Security+ certification
  • “The last part was for me to shadow his team. That was when it really clicked for me. I shadowed his team like 4 months after we met, and after that day, I’m like ‘ok, I’m going to work here. I’m going to make it happen.’ That’s what really kind of sold me.” – Kenneth Ellington, on shadowing a cybersecurity team and making a conscious choice to pursue it as a career
• Nick likes the fact that Kenneth’s boss from the deli made that connection for him. Kenneth thinks there is no way he would have otherwise met Rick (the cybersecurity leader who encouraged him to pursue the internship).
  • “All of the opportunities I’ve gotten in my life, in my career, have been because of that. I’ve always let people know what I’m doing and what I’m interested in.” – Kenneth Ellington

9:28 – Tell People What You Want

• John tells us Kenneth’s story holds the important lesson that people have to know what you want to do with your career. Kenneth’s manager apart from the mention of Kenneth’s desire to pursue technology likely saw an otherwise good / excellent deli employee. His manager may have encouraged him to pursue some other form of advancement.
  • Kenneth did not want to be a deli clerk forever and took every opportunity he could to level up.
  • Kenneth worked 2 jobs while in college. He was sometimes so tired he would sleep in his car (i.e. not safe to drive back home). Listen to Kenneth describe the average day’s schedule.
  • Kenneth’s parents would worry that he was working too hard. Kenneth says looking back that he would not change a thing in his experiences (i.e. the sacrifice was worth it).
  • Now, Kenneth can afford to get his car fixed when someone advises it. Five years ago he could not.
• On the day Kenneth met Rick, Rick was shadowing the store to work a few hours in each department so see what they did. Kenneth appreciates that Rick made the choice to take time to talk to him on that fateful day.
  • Rick had been with the company about 4 years at this point. Working the front lines like this (as Rick did) on a rotation is a great way not to lose touch with what happens on the front lines.

12:41 – Internships and Community Involvement

• Are internships only for those early in a career, or are they for anyone of any age who might want to gain experience and skills?
  • When Kenneth did the internship at Publix, most interns were in their early twenties. To his knowledge they (Publix) were looking for people in college.
  • Internships across different companies vary in terms of the requirements to get in. Some companies, for example, have apprenticeships.
• Kenneth tells us when he decided to get into cybersecurity he was completely focused on making it happen, letting nothing get in his way.
  • During the first two years of college, Kenneth wasn’t quite sure what he wanted to do. He took college seriously but didn’t have a real passion for the subject matter until he found cybersecurity.
  • Kenneth tells us it was challenging during the years of complete focus. Not everyone understood what he was doing or why, and some were not there to support him through it.
  • Kenneth made a lot of new friends with a growth mindset that he’s still friends with to this day. His advice for his students and for listeners is the importance of building relationships with people who care about you and want to see you succeed beyond just being in a specific fieldp.
  • Every decision Kenneth made revolved around cybersecurity once he made his mind up about pursuing it. This includes other internships he pursued in the discipline, how he spent his time outside of school, etc.
  • After the internship, Kenneth eventually left Publix.
• Not wanting to lose what he had learned from the cybersecurity internship, Kenneth joined Blacks in Cybersecurity, a minority-owned firm that helps people of color get into cybersecurity through conferences, networking, and career development. He also acted as a campus ambassador for the group.
  • This experience allowed Kenneth to make a number of professional connections in cybersecurity. It was an extremely positive community, which was very important to Kenneth, who still does training for the organization to this day.
  • “There’s not a lot of people who look like me in cybersecurity.” – Kenneth Ellington, on the value of joining Blacks in Cybersecurity and its mission

15:39 – Building Courses and Learning to Network

• Kenneth developed the Splunk course work for Blacks in Cybersecurity.
• When recounting his college graduation experience in 2020, Kenneth tells us it was pretty awful (all classes virtual for his last semester, didn’t get to walk across the stage at a ceremony or see classmates and teachers for 1.5 years, etc.).
• During the pandemic when everything was remote (in July 2020), Kenneth got a job offer from DTCC (Depository Trust and Clearing Corporation). There was a 2-month waiting period between graduation and getting the job during which Kenneth was stuck at home.
  • During this time between graduation and starting his new job, the founder of Blacks in Cybersecurity, Michaela Barnett, called Kenneth to ask him to develop a Splunk training for the organization.
  • Kenneth had to develop all the coursework from scratch including training modules, labs, and articles for further study. He did this for free because someone asked him to do it.
  • Even though Kenneth didn’t think the course was that good, everyone loved it. He received great feedback and was told he was a good teacher.
  • Kenneth continued to teach courses for Blacks in Cybersecurity for about 1.5 years, repeating the class every 4-6 months and continuing to get good feedback.
  • During this time, someone told Kenneth they would pay him for this course if he were to start charging for it. This is where the idea for ECA (Ellington Cyber Academy, the business Kenneth owns, began.
• In joining the Blacks in Cybersecurity community, Kenneth was constantly mindful of how he could help others.
  • Many people think of relationships as transactional. Kenneth gives the example of someone reaching out on LinkedIn asking for you to help them get a job without even building a relationship with you first.
  • “People don’t know how to network right. We’re not buying a Happy Meal from McDonald’s. We’re trying to build a relationship. So treat it as such. I don’t think college always does a proper job of that.” – Kenneth Ellington, on professional networking
    • Kenneth mentions the emphasis placed on networking with students of ECA.
  • Kenneth mentions he was that young college student who didn’t know how to network. He would often ask people for jobs, and they would say no because they didn’t know anything about him (his work, his work ethic, etc.). It’s something he had to learn.
    • Once he became part of Blacks in Cybersecurity, Kenneth tried to impart some of this knowledge into younger students and encourage them to practice – how to properly network, how to run an event, how to build connections, how to talk to someone, etc. There will be trial and error at first.
    • Kenneth mentions there was a lot of rejection, and there was a conflict between people wanting candidates with some experience and candidates like Kenneth who needed an opportunity to gain experience.
  • John mentions meeting Nick at a community group. In these settings you start to interact with people who have more experience than you and eventually become the person who can share some of the patterns you’ve seen when people ask the same question.
  • John agrees college doesn’t do a great job of teaching people how to network. There are many things to learn in college, and the social aspect may not be a focus.
    • Networking is a skill and is critical to your career trajectory. There’s no real coursework on how to do it. John isn’t sure what the solution is other than talking with people 1-1 about it or people writing blogs / making videos / developing courses on it.
    • “We would have events, but they never taught us how to actually talk to people. So people walk in a room, and we’re like ‘what are we supposed to do?’ And we’re standing around really awkward.” – Kenneth Ellington, on trying to learn how to network with others while in college
    • John mentions he was once given the advice to bring 50 copies of his resume and that he should hand it to people he meets.
  • Nick suggests we should bring up with others we meet the things we’re working on as well as our interests. People may offer to help us as a result of sharing this without even being asked.
    • Kenneth says people have a fear of possibly being laughed at, and he tells people “the worst thing that’s going to happen is you won’t get a response.”
    • “Being ok with rejection takes a lot, certainly a lot of time and a lot of maturity to get over.” – Kenneth Ellington, on being rejected on LinkedIn / not getting a response
    • We see people being negative on social media platforms such as LinkedIn, but Kenneth would encourage us all to stay positive on social media. People don’t want to work with folks who are consistently negative.
    • “There’s already enough negativity in the world. I try to be as positive as possible.” – Kenneth Ellington
  • Maybe we should be curious about what others are working on first (and ask them about it) before sharing what we’re working on when it comes to networking.
• Kenneth has a business coach and advisor for his work at ECA who helped re-create the company page and the LinkedIn page. Anyone visiting these pages can understand what Kenneth does and how he can help them.
  • There is a large amount of free resources available. When someone reaches out to Kenneth with a question he will share some of the free resources (articles, podcasts, videos etc.) in that topic area and encourages the person to reach out if they have questions.
  • Around 95% of the time, people never ask additional questions.
  • To save yourself time, develop a resource you can share with other people that can answer a lot of common questions.
  • For Kenneth the questions are usually about how to get into cybersecurity or how to level yourself up. Those questions are fine, but we need to dig deeper. If you can answer the questions below and then come to speak to Kenneth, it’s much easier to give personalized advice.
    • What specific area do you want to pursue within cybersecurity?
    • What do you want out of your career?
    • What type of company do you want to work for?
    • What is your current skill set?
    • Are you doing hands on training?
    • Do you want to be a leader, or do you just want to be an engineer?
  • John mentions people will stand out by consuming the free resources Kenneth shares based on an initial question and then following up with some additional questions.
    • Kenneth says if we do even the bare minimum, we will be ahead of many others.

26:16 – The Life of an Instructor

• What made Kenneth enjoy being an instructor?
  • Kenneth’s father enjoys teaching others and was definitely an influence.
  • Teaching those first few courses helped Kenneth see how much he enjoyed being an instructor and helped him develop it.
  • Kenneth has also volunteered to teach elementary students cybersecurity. He shares how challenging it was to help kids that age understand core concepts and keep their attention.
  • There was a natural progression to Kenneth’s foray into becoming an instructor.
    • He taught kids, adults, volunteered, was an instructor at the University of Houston, and now owns his own company, instructing businesses and professionals.
    • “I just got better and better at it. I tried to improve my processes slowly but surely.” – Kenneth Ellington, on becoming an instructor
  • Sometimes people tell Kenneth they want to teach or be an instructor but do not want to re-invent the wheel. Sometimes they feel their content is not unique.
    • Our unique experiences and values get showcased when we teach. Learners may not resonate as well with other programs even if you’re teaching the same or similar content to a company like Hack the Box.
    • Your personality, attitude, or the way you carry yourself may fit well with the needs of a learner.
    • Remember you do not have to appeal to everyone as an instructor. Bring your unique experiences and values to it, and develop a unique voice. The market is large, and even by winning 1% of it you can do well.
    • If you need help, get a business coach and advisor.
• What about being an instructor in a classroom vs. doing it remotely?
  • Virtual delivery seems harder.
  • It’s hard to ignore someone who is in your face in a physical classroom compared to an online (remote delivered) course where someone might have their camera off.
  • It’s easier to see facial expressions, emotions, and mannerisms in person. But on the other hand it is easier to get people on a remote session than in a classroom (i.e. easier to extend your reach virtually). Kenneth tells us it is a give and take.
  • At the time of this recording most events for Ellington Cyber Academy are virtual.
• Developing the course work for Splunk and other topics deepened Kenneth’s knowledge.
  • When you’re the instructor, people are going to test your knowledge and ask questions. You want to ensure you know what things mean to provide answers. Understanding this pushed Kenneth to achieve greater depth of knowledge in areas on which he was / is teaching (i.e. Splunk as one example).
  • At the time of this recording, Kenneth was working on a Sentinel course and had to do extra research and labs. He likes to document steps so they only need to be performed once.
  • “Here’s what you click. Here’s why you click it. Here’s what you download. Here’s where you install it…. To the point where if I gave this document to my grandma she could do it. That’s how simple I want it to be.” – Kenneth Ellington, on documenting things step by step
  • Technical documentation can often times have gaps. Many of us have fallen victim to this.
• John mentions having fallen victim to trying to teach someone something and realizing he’s unsure about the why or has a gap in understanding.
  • John references the television show ER and the mantra of “watch one, do one, teach one.” It’s a good idea to get hands on with a technology and then try to explain it to someone. It will help you identify your own lack of understanding in certain areas.
  • “I specifically make my stuff insanely hard because when you get on the job I don’t want you to be shocked by anything that you see….People will find out where the gaps in their knowledge are.” – Kenneth Ellington, on the reasoning for constructing coursework at Ellington Cyber Academy to be challenging

32:28 – Overcoming Objections to Self-Investment

• In his work at ECA, Kenneth gets to teach people and is able to change people’s lives (i.e. help them achieve a better, higher paying job to take care of their families). Kenneth cannot get this same sense of satisfaction and fulfillment only from his day job.
• Sometimes Kenneth wonders why he works so hard to run ECA. And when people let him know they got a new job making more money as a result of his help, it keeps him going.
  • John says because what he is doing is hard, it makes total sense for Kenneth to be paid for the work he does.
  • The feedback from people is evidence of the impact Kenneth is making.
• Kenneth mentions at times trying to help people who may not want help.
• In Kenneth’s day job as a cybersecurity consultant, a customer may not fully understand what they want to do or what they need.
  • When Kenneth’s company tries to help their customers, Kenneth says sometimes people get upset and don’t trust him or other consultants from his company.
  • John mentions there is usually a reason companies hire consultants. It’s to bring in a level of experience / expertise that a company doesn’t have to solve a problem. But the people consultants have to work with do not always want the advice.
• From Kenneth’s experience owning and operating ECA, getting people to invest in themselves can be quite difficult.
• Someone may spend $100K on a new car without any reservations but be hesitant to spend $10K on something that could change their life for the better (a course that could get them a new job, for example).
  • People might say they can do something on Udemy for cheaper than one of Kenneth’s courses, but after Kenneth checks in with those people again over time, most have taken no action.
  • When people start to get hesitant to invest in a course, often times they see value in making the investment (i.e. cost is not a roadblock).
• Kenneth is not naturally good at sales and marketing and has a business coach and team to help him in these areas.
  • Working to craft offers that can overcome the psychological hurdles in people is the hardest part for Kenneth.
  • The teaching part is the easiest part of Kenneth’s business.
  • “Convincing people to trust in themselves because they came to me in the first place is the biggest thing.” – Kenneth Ellington
  • John mentions sales and closing a deal can be tough. There are people who might do nothing even if they paid the price for the course.
• Kenneth’s courses were free initially.
  • When he would tell people to sign up and that it would take a month of commitment, they would balk at the time commitment. They would tell him it wasn’t about money but rather time.
  • Then when Kenneth started charging $85 for his courses, people would balk at the price. When prices went up for the course, people would point to other platforms like Udemy as being cheaper.
  • “If I make this free, you won’t do it. And I don’t like to make a product people won’t use….That’s why I charge for our services and products because they work and they change peoples’ lives.” – Kenneth Ellington, on handling objections as a business owner
  • Charging for services enables Kenneth to bring in recruiters, partners, and hiring managers to help those going through the program.
  • When people tell Kenneth they can get the same training on Udemy he asks why they haven’t done it.
    • John says the idea is that ECA is providing value above and beyond the baseline of Udemy, and if people do not realize this they are self-selecting not to do business with Kenneth.
    • When people say they hate their job and want to do something different, they may not hate it enough or want to do something different enough to take an action.
  • Nick says a lack of action is more than just knowing what you should do. There is an emotional and psychological piece that has to move in some direction.
    • John says there is a lot of inertia to overcome. The job in selling a product or service like this is to provide the option so that when someone gets motivated to move forward you are one of the options they could choose to move forward with.
    • Even fine tuning your sales processes by working with a coach does not fully overcome the psychological barriers. People might need to work out their own issues of inaction.

41:36 – A Mindset Coach

• Kenneth has to be a bit of a mindset coach as well, helping students get through their pains and self doubt.

  • Students may not have had anyone who really believed in them.
  • A student could have previously trusted the wrong person or bootcamp in the industry.
  • “I can see the light at the end of the tunnel. They always can’t, so I tell them ‘you have to trust me, and you paid me a lot of money to trust me. So trust me’” – Kenneth Ellington, on motivating his students to shift their mindset
  • Kenneth says it’s always rewarding to see students grow both personally and professionally as a result of working with him.
  • For some people even references are not enough to help handle objections.
  • Kenneth shares the success story of Hazel, a college graduate from University of Texas at Arlington who struggled to find a job for 6 months after graduation. Her biggest struggle was confidence, but she showed tremendous growth in a short period of time.
    • After the program ended Kenneth and team helped Hazel look for a job, and she got one in a few weeks.
    • Kenneth has started to take Hazel to more local Dallas area meetups.

• Mentioned in the outro

  • We should tell our managers what we’re interested in and what we want to do with our careers (assuming we’re having career conversations with them). If you aren’t having those, check out Episode 45 on career conversations with your manager.
    • Hopefully this story echoes the lesson for managers to help their team members make connections that can further their career.
  • When people give us advice, we may choose to take it or not take it. In Kenneth’s case, he got started right away pursuing the advice from Rick (the cybersecurity director).
  • The discussion we had with Kenneth about being contacted on LinkedIn made Nick think of our discussion in Episode 147 of becoming hard to reach as one of the tenants of deep work.
  • Someone from the Blacks in Cybersecurity organization asked Kenneth to create course work for the organization. This took on multiple iterations and became something Kenneth wanted to ensure was accessible to beginners.
  • It’s difficult to invest in ourselves long term compared to doing something that is instantly gratifying.
    • Brendon Burchard consistently recommends looking at your goals every day. Maybe we need a longer term focus and to take some time each day for ourselves, even if we’re taking time to analyze what we like and do not like about what we do.

Contact us if you need help on the journey, and be sure to check out the Nerd Journey Podcast Knowledge Graph.