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The Uniqueness of Tech: 100Devs, Coffee Chats, and the Hallway Track with Julia Furst Morgado (1/2)

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What would you do with a free pass to a tech conference? Julia Furst Morgado had to decide whether to attend KubeCon without ever having been to a tech conference. After deciding to attend, she came back from the conference with a new perspective and a job offer. While this looks easy on the surface, there’s much more to the story.

In episode 311 we’re joined by global technologist Julia Furst Morgado. We’re going to explore Julia’s early career in law, the shift to marketing, and how that ultimately led her to the tech industry. Julia will tell us her reasons for attending a boot camp and how informational coffee chats and “hallway track” networking at tech conferences were instrumental in building her professional network. If you’ve heard the phrase “learning in public” but have never done it yourself, get ready for some inspiration from Julia’s story and tips on how you can get started helping the greater technical community.

Original Recording Date: 12-19-2024

Topics – Meet Julia Furst Morgado, Life before Tech, Learn in Public, Pursuing a Boot Camp and Building a Professional Network, Tech Conferences and the Hallway Track, Details on 100Devs

2:37 – Meet Julia Furst Morgado

  • Julia Furst Morgado is a global technologist at Veeam.
    • Julia’s role is as a community-facing technical evangelist. She is heavily involved in the technical community and shares feedback with product managers to improve future product functionalities.
    • When new product releases happen, Julia also gives presentations, hosts webinars, and writes blogs to educate the technical community.
    • Though not directly part of her job, Julia organizes a number of events that benefit the greater technical community.
    • Would Julia’s role be classified as technical marketing?
      • A more appropriate classification would be developer advocacy or developer relations.
      • Julia works within the Office of the CTO, but many times these roles can sit within a marketing organization or even inside a sales organization (which ultimately depends on the company).

4:35 – Life before Tech

  • How did Julia get interested in technology in the first place?
    • Julia transitioned into the technology field about 2 years ago and has achieved a great deal in a short time.
    • Julia is from Brazil and was born in Sao Palo and went to law school there. Julia had a sister studying law, and not knowing what she wanted to do after high school, Julia pursued law as well.
    • Julia later moved to the US after getting a student visa and studied business at the University of California at Berkeley. She went on to work in marketing as a marketing manager at an MSP (managed service provider).
    • Before working for the MSP, Julia never would have considered a transition into technology.
      • Working with the engineers at the MSP taught Julia quite a bit. As the only marketing person at the MSP, she had to do a number of things.
      • “It sparked that want to be more technical. And during the pandemic I got laid off, and I did a coding boot camp. And that’s how I transitioned into tech.” – Julia Furst Morgado, on working for an MSP as the spark that got her interested in tech
  • What did Julia not like about law?
    • Julia describes the law field as a different world. People wear jeans and t-shirts at technology conferences, but you won’t find that in the legal field. People wear suits and are very formal just like we see on Netflix and other television shows.
    • “I worked at an office that was very toxic, and I just decided that’s not what I want. And to begin with, I wasn’t even sure…that I liked law.” – Julia Furst Morgado, on pursuing a career in law
    • Julia then moved to the US to study business, feeling it would open up a number of possibilities for her.
  • What specifically drew Julia to marketing?
    • Julia is a very creative person and recently heard from someone she might have giftedness.
    • During her business studies in school, the marketing classes challenged Julia to find alternative ways to solve problems, and she really liked that aspect. Julia pursued a job in marketing right after finishing her business studies.
    • After starting the marketing role at the MSP, Julia worked with software engineers, IT support, and people in DevOps focused roles.
    • Julia was tasked with rebuilding the MSP’s website, creating white papers, and writing corporate blogs. She also worked with SEO (search engine optimization) and analytics.
      • All of this ended up being relatable experience for what Julia does now as a global technologist.
      • “I had to be in contact with engineers to make sure what I was writing was correct…. Because I’m so curious I would always go to them and ask more questions and research on Google and go down the rabbit hole on something…. My job was…write that blog post. Don’t learn about that technology. Just write the blog post. But I did indeed….” – Julia Furst Morgado, on spending extra time to learn technology even when she was a marketer
      • The extra time Julia spent learning was not wasted. It provided her with a background of knowledge. Learning at a deeper level prevented the content Julia was creating from being superficial.

11:16 – Learn in Public

  • Julia’s job as a marketer was heavily focused on writing and creating content.
    • We’ve advocated on the show for people to blog about the things they are learning. It sounded like Julia was able to do that as a job.
    • When Julia started the boot camp, she learned the term “learn in public” or “learning in public.” She cites a blog post that details the idea.
    • “Whatever you’re learning…share it with others because it builds credibility. One, you’re teaching others. You learn it even better. So I applied this concept, and I would share it on social media. I created a blog, and I also created not one, not two, not three, but four YouTube channels because I speak four languages and wanted to do one YouTube in each language.” – Julia Furst Morgado
    • Julia stresses the importance of being consistent in creating content and sharing it.
    • “I started creating a lot of content, since the beginning, without being afraid of showing…my weaknesses. I think this is important…. Everyone should write or do a live stream or YouTube. It doesn’t necessarily have to be written content. There are other alternatives.” – Julia Furst Morgado
    • People are fearful of showing that they are not an expert in a specific topic area. Regardless of your level of expertise, the content you create can help others who are learning and are not at the same level as you.
    • John references Show Your Work by Austin Kleon. Many times people want to learn from someone who has not mastered a topic but someone who is documenting the journey of gaining expertise over time (starting from novice, for example, to competence and beyond).
      • Documenting the journey can give someone an authentic voice because you are writing for an audience, even if that audience is only you. Perhaps you can also find a community of others from which to learn along the way.
  • Did Julia like to write when part of her job as a marketer was writing blogs for the MSP?
    • She did not like it. The content was marketing and very salesy. Julia did not feel it was authentic.
    • “Nowadays I write a different type of content…more authentic – what I think about the tool, the challenges I’m facing…. Now I write the real deal, the real thing.” – Julia Furst Morgado
    • Julia likes to write about the things she’s passionate about, and it allows her to be more authentic.
    • People may not know what their authentic voice is or the way in which they prefer to write until they are in the midst of the writing process.
      • This is an indirect reference to the phrase “writing is thinking” from Episode 156 with guest Josh Duffney.
    • “You can only find out by doing it. People get stuck in that planning phase, and they never execute. And I’ve been there…. We will only find our voice. We will only find the topics that we want to create content or to write about if we start.” – Julia Furst Morgado, on creating content
    • Julia wants to start a podcast and right now is in the planning phase for it.
    • Julia encourages people to start creating some kind of content, even if it isn’t perfect.
  • When Julia began writing blogs and sharing her content, was there a pressure to keep doing it because it was done “in public?”
    • Julia feels like there is pressure once you start sharing content on social media, especially if people find it valuable. When someone re-shares something you wrote or sends you a message telling you it is helpful, it can make you feel like you should do more.
    • Julia encourages us to be consistent with our content. If you are releasing something once per week and for some reason miss a week, people may decide to place their attention elsewhere.
    • The consistency in creating content needs to be something that is sustainable for you. You don’t need a blog post every day. Julia suggests starting off with a target of once per month.
  • How did Julia’s skills in digital marketing shape the way she approached sharing content on social media?
    • Julia writes with her audience in mind. Her intention is to solve a problem for the audience.
    • She always includes a call to action (or CTA) at the end. This may encourage people to comment, like the content, or attend an event for example.
    • Julia structures her post in a way that people will want to read it. Writing in a single block isn’t as easy on the eyes. People might not read your post based solely on this format choice.
    • Blog posts should start with a “hook” to get the reader’s attention. You should follow this same guidance for social media posts. On LinkedIn, for example, only a couple of sentences show up with a link for people to “read more.” Will your first 2 sentences be powerful enough to make people want to know more?

20:56 – Pursuing a Boot Camp and Building a Professional Network

  • While working for the MSP, Julia was already looking at boot camps in New York City. A boot camp can cost $10,000 or more, which Julia was willing to pay.
  • Julia wanted to learn technical skills and software development. At around this same time she was laid off from her role at the MSP.
  • Julia saw a post on Reddit about someone starting a boot camp in January 2022. It would be live streamed and focused on web development (JavaScript, Node.js, React, etc.).
    • She attended the live stream twice per week for 3 hours. The instructor had office hours and required homework.
    • “The thing is the boot camp wasn’t just a coding boot camp. He said his goal was to get us a job in tech, our first job in tech.” – Julia Furst Morgado, on the uniqueness of the boot camp she joined and the instructor’s goal
    • As part of the homework for the boot camp, Julia and other attendees were required to do coffee chats with others in the industry. They were to reach out to people already working in the tech industry to ask for a 15-minute coffee chat.
    • Julia conducted over 100 coffee chats during this time, and she built a professional network. She kept a spreadsheet to track the people she spoke with and notes on the conversation for future reference.
    • “And I built my network very easily. Because when you’re starting out, and you show people you’re putting in the effort, they will help you. They won’t help you if you just say, ‘I want a job. Can you give me a referral?’ …If they show you that they’re putting in the work, yes, I’ll give you 15 minutes of my day to tell you about how I got here where I am and give you some advice. And that’s what I did, more than 100 times.” – Julia Furst Morgado, on doing coffee chats with other technologists as part of a boot camp assignment
    • How many of the coffee chats ended after 15 minutes?
      • Most of the conversations ended up being longer than 15 minutes. Julia says she was able to find mentors through these coffee chats. Most people were very open to speaking with her.
      • Three of the coffee chats became recurring coffee chats.
      • Most of the coffee chats were with men. Julia advocates for helping and supporting more women in tech, just as she had supporters and many people who encouraged her during this process.
      • “It was great. It was amazing. And I hadn’t seen that in marketing or law. This I think is more particular to tech. Because of open source people want to collaborate and help each other to achieve the same goal. They don’t mind telling you what they did, their path to success…. It’s one more that is going to help the cause or collaborate together. That’s one of the things I love about tech.” – Julia Furst Morgado
  • Did anyone give Julia advice on career options in tech before she attended the boot camp?
    • “No…. I went to the boot camp thinking mostly that tech was software engineering.” – Julia Furst Morgado
    • Even though she had worked with IT Support and DevOps folks at the MSP, Julia thought to say you worked in tech meant you were a software engineer. She learned there is so much more than that under the tech umbrella.
    • In the coffee chats Julia spoke to software engineers, program managers, DevOps engineers, platform engineers, data analysts, etc. from an array of different companies of various sizes (including large companies and startups).
    • During this process, Julia was learning about different job roles and what those entailed. But until she worked with some of the tools needed to do these types of jobs, Julia did not know which one might be best suited for her.
    • Julia tried building websites and decided she did not like front-end work. After working with APIs, she found she did not like back-end work or even full stack work. Julia enjoyed working with cloud technologies from AWS and eventually gravitated toward Kubernetes. It was her network that took her there.
  • Julia shares the story of someone she met on social media in the greater tech community. This person gave her a lot of guidance and advice and then a free ticket to KubeCon.
    • Julia was presented with the free ticket while she was still doing the boot camp.
    • “And by the way, I wasn’t sure if I should go because I thought it would distract me from software development. My other mentors…they said, ‘Julia, go for it. The homework you have for the boot camp…you can do it after or before. But go. This is a great opportunity.’ I went, and I met a lot of people. I saw there is a different world besides software development – DevOps and platform engineering and infrastructure…all of that. The community is amazing there.” – Julia Furst Morgado
    • At the conference, Julia met Michael Cade (a now colleague at Veeam who she knew only from Twitter then) in person. Michael said he wanted Julia to come work on his team.
    • Veeam had a booth and a number of events at the conference. Julia spent a day going to all the Veeam events and talking to a lot of people. Michael wanted Julia to come work at Veeam and put her in touch with the hiring manager.
    • “I had two interviews. They weren’t technical. It was more like a chat. He wanted to get to know me. And I got the job.” – Julia Furst Morgado

29:44 – Tech Conferences and the Hallway Track

  • While getting the job at Veeam might have looked easy, Julia had put in the work to develop a background in advance.
    • Julia’s social media presence and the willingness to learn in public is part of what made others want to invest in her (i.e. the free conference pass).
  • During the second interview, Julia told the hiring manager she had never worked with backup, servers, infrastructure, or hardware.
    • “It’s ok. We can teach you that. But we can’t teach someone this hunger to learn and adaptability. You take initiative. We don’t need to hold your hand to teach you something.” – hiring manager to Julia Furst Morgado
    • Julia calls the above the soft skills. While technical skills are important, soft skills are very important as well.
  • John says learning in public can often be individual and solo. Learning at a conference is learning in a group or learning from someone broadcasting information in a session. What thoughts does Julia have about the contrast in learning styles?
    • “When I go to conferences, I don’t learn a lot. I learn after I get home from conferences because at conferences, I focus on networking…. It’s basically just meeting people and building those relationships.” – Julia Furst Morgado
    • When at home…Julia will study, work on personal projects, read books, or watch YouTube videos. When she is at a conference, Julia will talk about what she is learning and ask people for help if needed.
    • Julia has a lot of friends in the tech industry now. She’s seen them multiple times at events and will comment on their posts.
    • After coming back from a conference, Julia will watch announcements and recorded sessions from the conference to catch up, learn, and put things into practice.
    • At conferences, Julia would advise listeners to focus on networking (or the “hallway track”). You can go to sessions if you would like to meet the speaker in person or ask specific questions.
    • John says some people may have trouble with the hallway track due to introversion, but he has seen a number of people attack the hallway track with some vigor.
    • Julia says this is part of developing soft skills like effective communication.
    • Many people in tech may be shy or introverted. You have to learn to talk to other people by doing it. Julia says we can practice at the grocery store by talking to the cashier. It’s a small step toward meeting new people at a conference.
  • After getting the free conference pass, did someone give Julia advice on how to approach the conference?
    • No. Julia came up with what she did at the conference on her own.
    • “I didn’t know what to expect. I was shocked at the beginning. It was so big. I think there were…around 10,000 people. I didn’t know anyone.” – Julia Furst Morgado
    • Julia went to the booths and conference events. Someone she knew introduced her to someone else, and it went on from there.
    • Julia enjoys talking with people, and it was easy for her to meet a lot of people.
    • By the second day Julia felt pretty comfortable.
    • “I didn’t know what Kubernetes was yet. I was trying to understand, but Kubernetes is very hard. But I knew people and they were willing to help me…. That’s what I love about tech.” – Julia Furst Morgado

36:29 – Details on 100Devs

Mentioned in the Outro

  • Special shout out to former guest Al Rasheed for recommending we have Julia on the show!
  • The coffee chats were a great idea for professional networking. In in these 15-minute discussions (many of which went longer than that), you are interviewing the person about their experience, the tools they use, what they are learning, and what their job is like.
  • Talking to many people and getting advice from all of them might make one wonder which path to take in the tech industry. Julia had to do some tinkering with different tools before uncovering an interest in cloud technologies and Kubernetes. Julia decided to learn these in public. Is there something new you want to learn?
    • Maybe it’s something in your area, outside your area, or just something that is interesting. It could be a certification you want to get.
    • Suppose you book a certification test and take a course to help you study (with plenty of time to complete it). But as you work through it, consider documenting the following items in blog form to share as evidence of learning in public:
      • Why you chose this area / what interested you in the first place
      • The notes you took on hard concepts or some of the items you learned in the process
      • Whether your preparation was adequate for the exam / if you would have prepared differently if you did it all over again
      • If pursuing the certification made you want to go deeper in the area or revealed it wasn’t as interesting as you thought
    • Maybe you publish 1, 2, or 3 posts. It’s a small start to learning in public that can help others and help you at the same time. And it’s not a huge commitment to create content. It’s worth thinking about!
      • This is proof of work and proof of learning. It also shows your thinking process.

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