Welcome to episode 245 of the Nerd Journey Podcast [@NerdJourney]! We’re John White (@vJourneyman) and Nick Korte (@NetworkNerd_) – two technology professionals with backgrounds in IT Operations and Sales Engineering on a mission to help others accelerate career progression and increase job satisfaction by bringing listeners the advice we wish we’d been given earlier in our careers. In today’s episode we share part 1 of an interview with Dr. Sirisha Kuchimanchi, discussing Sirisha’s pursuit of physics in school, thoughts on women in STEM fields and how to support them, suggestions for working with finance teams, the story of Sirisha being laid off and bouncing back, and thoughts on meetings with your manager and your skip level manager.

Original Recording Date: 09-16-2023

Topics – A Background in Physics, Women in STEM and Getting Support, Moving to the US, Working with Finance, Getting Laid Off, Communicating with Your Manager, On Skip Level Managers

3:28 – A Background in Physics

• Dr. Sirisha Kuchimanchi calls herself an entrepreneur today. She started her career working for a semiconductor manufacturer in the tech industry which resulted in 17 years of experience.
  • During this time, Sirisha has been laid off, been a stay-at-home mother, and went back to graduate school to get a Ph.D. Most recently she quit her corporate job to venture out on her own.
  • Sirisha is the host of the Women, Career, and Life Podcast which covers topics such as women in leadership and financial independence.
• Sirisha liked sciences and problem solving when she was younger, but physics was the one she liked most of all (more so than chemistry or math).
  • Sirisha also grew up an area of India which was an academic institution. Her father is a physicist but did not influence her decision to pursue the field of study.
  • At this point in India the process for getting into university was write an entrance exam in your chosen field of study after graduating high school. Sirisha had decided not to write an engineering exam because she wanted to study something more interesting – physics.
    • Software engineering did not exist as a field really during this time, so the “engineering” reference above would have meant mechanical engineering.

6:01 – Women in STEM and Getting Support

• We want to help increate the number of young ladies / women who pursue careers in science, technology, engineering, and mathematics (STEM). Were there any specific challenges Sirisha faced as a young woman pursuing physics at the time she did?
  • Sirisha tells us that in many ways the ecosystem is quite different between the United States and India.
  • “In India in some ways, to broad brush stroke, the smarter you are, the more you’re thought of. In the US, if you’re an athlete, you’re given credit. If you’re a nerd, well, good luck to you. So I think there is sort of this flip side of the coin of how you’re viewed, which I think makes a difference.” – Dr. Sirisha Kuchimanchi
  • Because of the state in India in which Sirisha grew up, studying sciences meant going to either a men’s or a women’s college, and she ended up at a girl’s college at that time. She would study at co-ed colleges later during her academic career.
  • Sirisha had friends in engineering schools to study mechanical or electrical engineering, and these women were greatly outnumbered by men in the classroom.
  • Nick mentioned his teenage daughter loves math today.
  • Sirisha has a picture at home from when her kids were competing in math and science competitions during their middle school years. She tells us there were around 40 kids in the picture and only 6 of them girls.
  • “We talk about high school girls and math and STEM. You need to catch them at elementary school because you’ve kind of already lost the pipeline. And then when you talk about the corporate world, and that pipe is just continuously leaking with holes.” – Dr. Sirisha Kuchimanchi, commenting on reasons for a shortage of women in STEM fields
  • In speaking with young women that are high school age, some of the challenges are these young women doubting and questioning their own ability to succeed. Listen to Sirisha’s story of a young girl wanting to study architecture but being unsure if she’s “good enough.”
  • Sirisha doesn’t remember ever wondering or thinking about being “good enough” to pursue her field of study. Many of the girls in her group of friends were in competition with one another when they were younger. Sirisha also tells us that several of the girls from her friend group who were interested in science obtained PhDs over time just as she has, taking breaks along the way to become mothers in many cases. It was not a linear path for most.
  • “You have to find your support network.” – Dr. Sirisha Kuchimanchi, on advice for women wanting to pursue a career in STEM fields
    • Sirisha would advise young women interested in a STEM career (like Nick’s daughter as one example) to seek support from others in their local community (other girls or even boys).
    • If someone is taking away from your confidence, it may be best to stay away from that person.
    • Finding mentors and peers is extremely helpful. Young women may not be seeking these out, so Sirisha would advise if we see the spark dimming out a little to help our daughters / young ladies we know by seeking out others like Sirisha who have already walked the path for a deeper discussion.
  • Sirisha shares that recently she was asked to help provide guest speakers in specific fields for a career club at the school where her kids attend.
  • “You need to see people like you.” – Dr. Sirisha Kuchimanchi
  • Sirisha tells us when she was younger she had many people around her who were on an academic path and that not many girls went that far down the path.
    • Convincing others and your parents to pursue a specific field of study and sticking to that path can be challenging. Sirisha says we have to navigate these situations and find our allies along the way.
    • It’s going to be very difficult if you feel like you are alone through this process. People may have the talent but also have doubt and a lack of support.
    • For those attending or about to attend college, try finding a teacher, a club, or maybe a community center for support. Reach out to people on social media as well.
    • Any listener of the show is always welcome to contact John or Nick (or both) on LinkedIn or some other platform.
    • “There are so many avenues. I know it takes work, and it’s hard work. But usually people are willing to help especially if they see where you’re coming from and what your ask is. If it’s very transactional, then it may be off putting, but if it’s something like ‘I’m seeking knowledge, I’m seeking to understand this, or I need support for this, absolutely.’” – Dr. Sirisha Kuchimanchi
  • Not asking at all means there is zero chance of getting any kind of help!
  • Sirisha recently attended Dallas Startup Week, where she heard someone say the 3 most beautiful and important words of the English language are “please help me.”
  • Remember to also be specific when you ask for something. If you want career advice, for example, give some context behind where you’re coming from and where you want to get to rather than just saying “I need career advice.”
  • When reaching out to people working on similar things as her, Sirisha might ask for 30 minutes. For those people Sirisha knows are super busy, she may only ask for 15 minutes and is very specific on what she wants out of the 15 minutes.
    • Sirisha says the 15 minutes is not often an exploratory conversation, that she is up front about why she came to the person and what she would like to get out of the time period. Sirisha tells us she is also respectful of the 15 minute window and will not run over it if the person does not have time.
    • Being respectful of meeting time boundaries is great advice as general good meeting etiquette. Sirisha tells us that standing / walking meetings can actually shorten meetings and allow you to build a different type of rapport.

13:55 – Moving to the US

• At some point Sirisha relocated from India to the US.
  • With so much knowledge out there these days and tools like social media platforms, the relocation might not be so difficult for someone seeking to do it today.
  • Sirisha had watched many Hollywood movies, but some of the challenges were things like the language, learning the lingo and etiquette, ordering food to go, etc.
    • She remembers taking a class for international students at one point on how to communicate. One of the most important pieces of advice was to ask “what does that mean?”
  • Some of the most challenging things to Sirisha were necessities like finding accommodations, figuring out social security cards, credit cards, and cell phones. Each of these can build on the other in a lot of ways, and someone usually has to walk you through the various processes if you’re not familiar.
  • Regardless of the age at which you relocate, finances become extremely important.
  • “You have to know about the tools that are available to you, and we never talk about these tools….Finance is such a taboo, stigma subject that rarely any of us talk to our friends about it. So where do you learn about it?” – Dr. Sirisha Kuchimanchi, on the importance of finance
  • Sirisha shares the story of a friend who had not heard of IRAs (Individual Retirement Accounts) until her 30s and was not able to take advantage of the benefits at an earlier age. The earlier we start focusing on our financial wellbeing, the better!

16:16 – Working with Finance

• Nick mentioned in addition to finance being something that isn’t taught to us well on a personal level, finance can be viewed as a black box in the corporate world, and technologists often have trouble understanding the role of the finance team (other than possibly feeling that they are the ones saying no to cool technology projects).
• Sirisha’s experience in leadership was largely in manufacturing environment.
  • We need to remember there could be equipment to consider. There are certainly people and processes as well. There are many factors to consider. Equipment repair could be one of them, and investments could be another.
  • “They are looking at the future projection of what does the market look like, what are the needs of the organization, and where you want to invest those resources.” – Dr. Sirisha Kuchimanchi, on the role of finance in organizations
  • Finance teams may be looking at projections and targeting specific goals.
  • Sirisha emphasizes how helpful it can be for finance, leadership, and engineering teams to work together. It might present a different way to tackle the problem.
  • “Just like you said, it can rub people the wrong way by just hearing the response but not the whys and the whats.” – Dr. Sirisha Kuchimanchi, on interactions with finance teams
  • Sirisha gives the example of putting in a project package for capital expenditure. These submissions may go through many iterations, and Sirisha would encourage us to go back to review the original submission to remember the original intent and close the loop.
  • It is also helpful to develop a working relationship and to understand what they (finance personnel) are doing and why.
  • “In the end, we are all people working on whatever problem it is. So we will have to work together. You don’t have to always see eye to eye with the other person…. It’s not a bad thing to have a conflict because you might drive an innovative solution or think outside the box. But finance is a key part. Literally nothing runs without money.” Dr. Sirisha Kuchimanchi, on relationships with and perceptions of finance
  • Without revenue generation, resource generation, or fund raising there’s not a point for doing all the work.
  • In her current state as an entrepreneur (what she calls a bit of a transition phase), Sirisha has to constantly evaluate how she is spending her time and the return on investment for it. Time is a constraint just like finances are.
  • “Think of yourself as running your own business, whatever your life looks like, even if you are working a full time job or you’re a student. And, translate that to a bigger ecosystem. Everyone needs to manage their budget.” – Dr. Sirisha Kuchimanchi
• Did Sirisha study finance in school or pick it up later?
  • Sirisha studied physics in college and didn’t even have economics. She did not pick up finance until later.
  • Though Sirisha did not study engineering after high school, she later chose to pursue studies in engineering and material science because she was doing materials research as a physicist and felt like the upper level math of quantum physics was above what she could comprehend. The materials research turned into material science and engineering.
  • Sirisha mentioned she is doing a TedX talk in October 2023. The topic for the talk is “Are We Rich or Poor? Money Conversations with Kids.”
    • Sirisha shares how important it is to discuss financial matters with our kids, especially in the absence of any required financial education in school.
  • Finance is a topic we should be open to discussing with our kids, friends and family, and even with those we may be mentoring.
  • Sirisha mentioned she learned some financial concepts from her father before coming to the US (because it was discussed in their home).
  • Sirisha was laid off from her first job here in the US and had a number of things to figure out as a result.
  • She heard people talking about rolling over her 401(K) during this time, but she did not really understand what that meant. After calling the company who serviced her account, Sirisha followed the advice she was given to do so (which she later realized was not good advice).
    • “I didn’t know what all that stuff was. I thought whoever was giving me advice was going to give me…good advice. And then later as I learned more and more I realized ‘this is such a mess.’” – Dr. Sirisha Kuchimanchi, on getting some poor investment advice
  • Sirisha mentions it is a scary decision when you’re seeking to “undo” something (i.e. change an investment situation). She read a number of books during this time and tried different things based on what she had learned.
  • Sirisha speaks on financial independence, especially for women, and tries to keep her own investments pretty simple.
    • She has created an automatic, pretty hands off system that is simple seems to work well for long-term investments. This works well for Sirisha. But we don’t learn any of this in school!
    • Nick mentions her system seems to be very much like The Automatic Millionaire by David Bach.

23:55 – Getting Laid Off

• What was the impact to Sirisha (psychological or other) of getting laid off from her first job, and how should one recover from something like this?
  • Sirisha was laid off less than a year into this first job, and it was during a difficult time for the US economy.
  • Today we talk about layoffs now using hashtags on LinkedIn or other platforms, but that platform didn’t exist when Sirisha was laid off. And it certainly was not a topic many people were willing to talk about (i.e. a bit of a taboo topic).
  • Sirisha had an immigrant visa at this time, and when it was time for her to transition back to working again, it took a long time for the hiring company to process her visa status.
  • “I had this wonderful manager who held a job for me. He could have quite literally let me go and said ‘I’ll hire the next person,’ but he held the job for like 4 months til they figured out how to process the visa for me to come back.” – Dr. Sirisha Kuchimanchi, on the impact a manager made based on her situation
  • Sirisha says going through a layoff can be very hard and cause you to doubt yourself (and even more so if it’s your first job).
  • “Statistics show I think it’s like 40% of the US will experience a layoff….Don’t take it personally. It is going to happen….Instead you think about how you’re going to make yourself financially resilient and career resilient while this is going to happen.” – Dr. Sirisha Kuchimanchi, on layoffs
  • Looking back, Sirisha feels getting laid off may have been the best thing that happened to her. She got called back from the client where she was working to see if she wanted to work for them.
  • “I didn’t know what mentorship was then. I didn’t know what networking was then. But if I look back those were the things that were happening without my knowledge.” – Dr. Sirisha Kuchimanchi
  • Sirisha would ask questions and have causal conversations with her co-workers and customers. This approach helped her build relationships, and she would encourage all of us to make it a priority to build relationships.
    • “You will have to build some rapport. People have to know what you’re doing.” – Dr. Sirisha Kuchimanchi
  • Before getting laid off, Sirisha was working at a client site. She tells us she did not stop by her company’s office very often or talk to her manager very much. Thinking back, though unsure if this affected the layoff, Sirisha realizes her manager probably had limited visibility into what she did.
  • Upon going back to work, Sirisha made it a point to meet with her manager 1-1 regularly.
    • If you work in the same office as your manager, dropping by to say hello and let them know what you’re working on is an option. You could also drop them an e-mail to share this. There should be other collaboration tools for remote workers.
    • “Keep your boss in the loop, what you’re working on, what you’re going to be doing…and deliver on time….At least deliver on time, and give them a huge heads up if you’re going to be late. Don’t leave them hanging.” – Dr. Sirisha Kuchimanchi, on communicating with your manager
  • Getting through a layoff will be hard. Sirisha encourages us to find people to meet and other things to do. She remembers taking some art classes at a local community college.
  • Sirisha didn’t have a television at home. She had moved to a new city and didn’t know anyone. She got a TV to supplement her lack of adult conversation.
  • “Do something where you get in front of people. You don’t have to interact with them if you’re not ready….There are so many ways, but don’t isolate yourself. I think that’s what can become very hard.” – Dr. Sirisha Kuchimanchi, on recovering from a layoff
    • Some of the examples of avoiding isolation we discuss includes going for a walk, seeking out a library, hanging out with friends / playing board games, etc.

28:23 – Communicating with Your Manager

• How often should we update our manager on what we’re working on?
  • Sirisha feels everyone, regardless of role, should have a scheduled 1-1 with their manager every 2 weeks, even if only 30 minutes.
  • “Well, you own your career, so if it’s important to you, you schedule the 1-1 if you want to make progress.” – Dr. Sirisha Kuchimanchi, on taking action if our manager does not get around to scheduling 1-1s
  • As we talk through this, Sirisha is looking at things from the perspective of reporting to a manager and being a manager (having done both).
  • Sirisha would normally schedule the 1-1s or tell her team to schedule the 1-1s every 2 weeks, and if it worked for her she would accept it.
  • Even if it’s 15 minutes every 2 weeks, go in with an agenda or just have a chat. You need that to build the rapport, and Sirisha tells us she has gotten to know some of her managers really well.
  • “Because you end up working for people….So you never know where anyone will end up.” – Dr. Sirisha Kuchimanchi, on the importance of getting to know your manager as a person
  • Sirisha reminds us that the corporate world can change to shuffle people around to where they are reporting to one person one day and a peer of that person the next.
• If you take the initiative to schedule a 1-1 with your manager, what kinds of things should you bring to that conversation?
  • Sirisha says we should start by asking whether your manager has defined / helped you understand what your job role is. If not, find out what the role is and the expectations of your role.
    • This is not an exercise just for around performance time or for when you’re setting goals for the year.
    • Expectations have to be set first before you can set goals.
  • If you want to speak to your manager about specific topics or give an update on something you’re working on, let your manager know beforehand the purpose of the time you need with them. Keep in mind your manager will also need to discuss specific items with you during the time slot.
  • If something you previously discussed with your manager is changing (i.e. a deadline, a process) or something is being added, send it to your manager in an e-mail to keep a record of what was agreed upon. This can also be something you keep as a reminder of what you accomplished over the course of the year.
    • We will likely forget what we’ve worked on by the end of a year.
    • Sirisha has a friend who keeps a color coded Gantt chart of her work to share with her boss.
  • It’s not just about your style but also about your manager’s style and how they might like information presented or how much they want at one time.
    • Some managers may want a monthly or a weekly report. It is important to find out what those expectations are.
    • “There’s lots of things we negotiate in life, not just our salary in the beginning of getting a job.” – Dr. Sirisha Kuchimanchi, on the realities of negotiating with your manager on what you want in your career and how you update them on your work
    • Start having conversations with your manager about future roles you might want.
  • Start with defining your role. Then think about the projects you’re working on and provide your manager with updates.
  • Let your manager know if you want to learn a new skill or take some training. The way in which you communicate depends on what works best for you and what works to suit your manager’s style. But it’s really important to communicate!
  • Not everyone may have a good relationship with their manager. In these cases we will have to be careful and decide what is right for us (knowing there is no one size fits all approach). If you feel your manager is not the right person, Sirisha would recommend you seek to build your career in other ways:
    • Have skip level conversations consistently without throwing anyone under the bus or burning bridges (whether you get along with your manager or not). If you want to be promoted to be an eventual peer of your boss, it is your skip level manager who can do this (and not your direct manager).
  • Be intentional about what you ask your manager.
    • “Have you told them what you want to do? Because they cannot read your mind. They do not know.” – Dr. Sirisha Kuchimanchi, on the importance of letting your manager know that you want to be promoted / do something else
    • Remember also that managers go to bat for (or advocate for) us. Managers may spend political and social capital to get an opportunity for you, and disconnects can happen if you say no consistently. It is extremely important to keep the lines of communication open with your manager about what you want to do.
    • If you aren’t sure what you want to do, try different things (new projects / assignments, team leadership, etc.).
    • If you’re looking to move into an entirely different organization inside your current company, start networking with people in that organization. Moving to a different company is a whole other conversation. You will have to determine the best time to let your manager know you’re planning to make a move.
    • “But you have to invest in your career. Your manager will invest with you, but you have to first sow the seeds. They can only help you nurture it.” – Dr. Sirisha Kuchimanchi
• What if we’ve requested a 1-1 with our manager, and they just don’t see the importance or necessity of it?
  • Sirisha says all managers may not be keen on having a 1-1. Some managers may not have had a good example set here by their managers.
  • You could try asking for a different time for the 1-1 or (if you work in the same office) suggest a walking meeting. Listen to how Sirisha would handle walking meetings with her team during her time as a manager (asking if the team had time / other meetings that conflicted).
  • Once you’ve exhausted all possibilities of scheduling or mode of meeting, it may be that the manager is not the right fit for you.
  • “If your career is not progressing and you feel like you’re getting stalled, go look elsewhere.” – Dr. Sirisha Kuchimanchi

35:14 – On Skip Level Managers

• Is it a risky move to meet with a skip level manager without speaking to your manager about it?

  • Sirisha says it can certainly be risky. In many cases she told her boss she was meeting with their manager, and in some cases she did not (unsure if that was a conscious decision).
  • Sirisha used to encourage her team to have skip level conversations, feeling they needed to meet her boss.
  • Sirisha made sure her team understood that for certain roles, she could only advocate for them and would not be the final decision maker. Even when she was the final decision maker, buy in would be required from many other people as well.
  • Some people make their entire career reliant on a single manager or sponsor. Once that person moves on (either inside or outside the company), what do you do? Sirisha emphasizes the importance of building a web of influence.
    • We need to be networking with more than just our manager and skip level manager. Sirisha would encourage getting to know your manager’s peers but not in a transactional way. It could be a casual conversation or even a meeting you’re in with that person where they can see what you’re working on and how you contribute.
    • Sirisha feels this is a challenge for women specifically. Many feel if they do an outstanding job they will be recognized. But this is not likely because there is so much happening at once.
    • It may be hard to speak up in meetings, but it’s critical to do it. Sometimes people will move on and might not give credit where credit is due. Hopefully in these cases allies and peers step in to give proper credit for ideas and contributions.
    • Sirisha suggests we can go and meet in a smaller group or 1-1 with meeting stakeholders to share ideas and what we’re working on as a way build rapport. Knowing someone else in the meeting can help us feel more comfortable speaking up. And this development of rapport helps people remember you and what you are doing.
  • Sirisha tells us the risk of meeting with your skip level manager is much less than not doing it.
    • Sirisha has been through a layoff and has come back to work after being a stay-at-home mom. She tends to look at things from a worst case scenario standpoint.
    • When Sirisha came back to work from being a stay-at-home mom, she realizes her perspective changed and that she was much more willing to ask for and push for things she wanted. She already understands the worst case scenarios.
    • “If I don’t ask, who is going to come and give it to me? I will have to ask for it myself. If I get it, good. If I don’t then I’m going to try a different way, try asking again, or do something else.” – Dr. Sirisha Kuchimanchi, on asking for the things she wanted in her career
    • Sirisha prefers direct feedback and wants to be told if something is / is not a viable option for her so she is not wasting time. In some scenarios Sirisha chose to make moves (i.e. jump ship) without asking for feedback because she knew how it was going to go.

• If you want to follow up with Sirisha, you can find her:

  • On her website sirishakuchimanchi.com – this contains information on her background, her radio show, her podcast, the keynote speaking engagements she does
  • Connect with Sirisha on LinkedIn and send her a message – Dr. Sirisha Kuchimanchi

• Mentioned in the outro

  • The leaking bucket of young women interested in STEM (Science, Technology, Engineering, and Mathematics) starts in primary school! We need to figure out what the pressures are causing us to lose potential talent so early. We need people from diverse backgrounds and with diverse points of view, or we lose the ability to solve problems better in group settings.
    • We really liked Sirisha’s advice to be mindful and watchful of young ladies who may be losing their spark or interest and pairing them with a role model / someone who looks like them. We (as a society) need to understand what happened to discourage these young ladies, figure out what messages they received, and do our best to put a stop to it. Making progress in this area will result in better economic outcomes and is in addition something that is ethically the right thing to do.
    • We can all be positive role models in young lady’s lives when we hear negative messages.
  • Don’t overlook the understanding of the finance team’s metrics for success and including them in your project funding discussions.
    • It made John wonder how high you have to go within an organization to know the point where finance is involved.
  • If you want to get inside the mind of a former finance professional, check out our episodes with Scott Egbert:
    • Episode 227 – Through Profit and Loss with Scott Egbert (1/2)
    • Episode 228 – The Displacement of Joy with Scott Egbert (2/2)
  • Don’t overlook the personal finance discussion, especially when it came to layoffs. For more episodes we’ve done on the topic of personal finance or guests who have discussed it, visit this tag search on our website.
  • Understanding expectations of the job role comes before goal setting which comes before career aspirations when it comes to meetings and communicating with your manager. We liked the way Sirisha laid this out sort of in an order of operations way. We’ve spoken previously on the show about executing well on your current job before pursuing another role (i.e. not likely to happen if you are not doing a good job now).
  • Speaking to your manager’s manager is a net positive balance of risk according to Sirisha, and it’s both a networking opportunity (which John calls “networking for the future”) and an opportunity for exposure.
    • Tim Crawford spoke about the importance of exposure to others within an organization in Episode 243 and also the importance of exposure to a board of directors in Episode 244.
    • Nick also thought about the discussion with John Nicholson from Episode 225 about your skip-level and many others being part of your own promotion process.
    • John mentions regularly leaving a positive impression on others is a key to success, even in the job you have. It can also result in people thinking of you for future opportunities.
  • As far as layoffs are concerned, Nick had not considered the importance of being with people even if you don’t want to talk right then.
    • This reminded John of the prevalence of PTSD in people who go through traumatic situations (i.e. veterans coming back from combat). The number one positive correlation to PTSD after going through trauma was isolation. There is something about not being isolated that cuts down on the presence of this disorder. If you’re under stress, don’t isolate yourself even if you would like to do that.
    • In a layoff situation, you have to go through what past guest and business psychologist Leanne Elliott calls the psychological transition of layoffs as we discussed in Episode 237. Nick can John would also highly recommend checking out the Truth, Lies, and Workplace Culture Podcast hosted by Leanne and her husband Al (both former guests of ours).

Contact us if you need help on the journey.