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Champion Your People: Role Clarity for the IC in the Chaotic World of Work with Al and Leanne Elliott (2/2)

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What can you do to stand out as an individual contributor on a large team? The first step is seeking absolute clarity on your role, and it begins with an honest conversation between you and your manager.

Al and Leanne Elliott are back with us this week in episode 341 to continue the discussion about life in flatter organizations with larger teams. Come learn why managers need a support network to be more effective with their team, how to gain role clarity while making your manager look good, and what it means for a leader to champion their people. Pay special attention to the list of introspective questions that can help us take control in our work environment during uncertain times. You’ll also get to hear how Truth, Lies and Work has evolved its content focus over time to serve an even wider audience and what Al and Leanne have learned as content creators.

If you’ve never had a reason to watch Ted Lasso, this episode may contain a compelling reason to start. And if you’re looking for a role model for being a stand out on your team, we will introduce you to Bob during this episode.

Original Recording Date: 07-12-2025

If you missed part 1 of our discussion with Al and Leanne last week, check out Episode 340 – Task Cohesion: Managing a Larger Team in a Flatter Organization amidst a Climate of Uncertainty with Al and Leanne Elliott (1/2)

Topics – Go Ahead and Pull the Cord, Hiding the Wires, Gaining Role Clarity and Gracious Managers, Introspection Gives Us Control, Creating Content for the Chaotic World of Work

3:05 – Go Ahead and Pull the Cord

  • Nick says this sounds like the recent solo episode John recorded (Episode 334 – First Time Manager – Your Old Job Description Has Been Deleted) and fighting the urge to answer the question.
    • John says that was directly from a coaching course he took as part of first-time manager training.
    • It seems less efficient timewise when someone comes to you with a problem you could solve quickly. It’s more efficient in the long run to guide someone through learning how to solve the problem themselves even if it takes longer in the short term.
    • Leanne says you’re building a person’s capabilities, confidence, and thinking process. This also creates a safe space for the person to ask any question. This genuine human interaction breeds trust, connection, and psychological safety.
    • “You’re not only gaining that 30 seconds back for every problem in the future. You’re gaining enormous amounts of trust and connection, which are two vital things that you need as a manager, and generally, in organizational life we really need right now.” – Leanne Elliott
    • Al references a recent podcast episode he and Leanne did with Andrew Palmer (the host of Boss Class) in which Andrew recounted his trip to a Toyota production facility in the UK.
      • In the Toyota facility there was a specific cord anyone could pull to completely stop the production line. Someone may stop it to ask a question or if something doesn’t look quite right, for example. The cord is also pulled to celebrate something or to share good news.
      • How many times do you think the cord gets pulled per day for a facility with 2000 employees?
      • That cord gets pulled (and the production line is stopped) on average 14,000 times per day (an average of 7 pulls per employee). Al says this is a great testament to psychological safety for employees.
      • John agrees and says it’s a testament to the organization’s culture.
      • Al says he and Leanne asked Andrew about new employees. New employees are encouraged to pull it to get that out of the way.
    • Leanne says good managers can give their employees the opportunity to pull the cord by asking for their feedback in different situations and giving them a voice.
    • "You’re showing that openness and vulnerability to go, “have your say. Your voice is important here too.’ And that’s probably the first baby step…you’re literally asking them to pull the cord.” – Leanne Elliott

8:03 – Hiding the Wires

  • In Episode 238 – Managers as Culture Keepers with Leanne Elliott (2/2) we talked about the concept of managers hiding the wires. If an organization is flatter and managers have more employees, is it more difficult for a manager to hide the wires, or is it the same?
    • “Hide the wires” means you’re making sure as a manager that the emotional blowback or frustration from a situation doesn’t impact one of your employees.
    • Leanne says it may not be harder or easier based on the size of a manager’s team. It’s more important that a manager has a support network with which they can share some of the emotional load or stressful situations. This could be a senior manager, a peer, a coach, a mentor, or even a therapist.
    • “It’s finding something beyond your immediate team context and the support you need to offload that…. It’s what psychologists call emotional regulation. It’s understanding, having that self-awareness…. ‘I’m feeling angry, but expressing that anger in this context right now isn’t going to serve me or my team….’ Being mindful and having that self-awareness of how you operate emotionally in terms of your behaviors is going to have a direct impact on the mood and motivation of your team. So, if that’s not going to be positive, then hide the wires.” – Leanne Elliott, on hiding the wires as a manager
      • Leanne says the anger or frustration mentioned above still needs to be expressed, but it can be done via a manager’s support network.
    • John tells us it can be very difficult when you’re asked to relay something you do not agree with or have emotional friction with to prevent passing along your reaction. But doing this can cue people in a way you don’t want. Part of a manager’s job is to be an intermediary and get feedback from the people they manage, aggregate it, and send it to upper-level leaders.
      • Don’t assume your team will have the same reaction to something that you had. Your reaction may be the result of just having a bad morning, for example. The idea may not be that bad. Try to avoid setting a cognitive bias for your team.
      • “Either way you don’t want to put them in a position where they have to do the work to change your mind before you can explore the idea or the possibility. You want to go to neutral space to understand exactly what their thoughts are. Chances are, they’re probably going to be the same as yours. On the off chance that they’re not, then yeah, it’s worth having some patience in that moment.” – Leanne Elliott
      • John reminds us that the person who passed an idea to a manager to relay to team members may not have been the originator of the idea either.

12:14 – Gaining Role Clarity and Gracious Managers

  • What if someone is an individual contributor on a large team of 15-20 people? It might be difficult to stand out as a high performer or to get time and attention even just for help. What ideas and guidance would Al and Leanne offer?
    • Al tells us it will depend on what the manager of the team is like. The manager could be overwhelmed or feel they are short on time to accomplish anything. Suppose we assume it’s a good manager who is on the lookout for high performing team members.
      • Sales environments, for example, are very target driven. To stand out in this environment, you have to be good at sales, close decent deals, and be a decent human being.
      • If you’re a back-end developer, the target may be number of commits or reducing the number of product bugs.
      • It’s difficult for Al to find something universal that will make your manager appreciate or notice you. Is there something?
      • Leanne says the example of sales is great because there is role clarity about what the job is and what the measures of success are.
      • “There’s so much clarity in sales because as an employee you know exactly what it is that you have to do at a transactional level to deliver the outcomes of your role.” – Leanne Elliott, on role clarity in sales
      • Leanne suggests trying to gain role clarity through an honest conversation with your manager. Many people do not have this. What if we asked our managers what their expectations are of us, the objectives we need to hit, what good looks like in our role, what the manager wants to deliver, and how to make them look great?
      • “I think ultimately as long as you know exactly what you have to deliver and you’re doing what you can to deliver it…and where you can, above and beyond…and where you can, make your manager look good or make their life easier or the life of your colleagues easier…that’s what exceptional performance looks like to me in a non-sales role. It’s somebody who is very clear on what they need to deliver, very willing to support their colleagues in helping them deliver…for the team, and very much there as a supportive member of staff to the manager….” – Leanne Elliott
      • This isn’t necessarily easy in practice. For you to get the role clarity we’re talking about, your manager must first have clarity about your role. But this is a great starting point according to Leanne.
    • Should we seek role clarity from our manager on a regular basis, especially if there has been a change in team or greater organization structure, for example?
      • Leanne says this is an opportunity to be curious, especially during times of change, and to have an open conversation with your manager. You can ask about the expectations of the team and the organization for example.
      • This goes back to concepts surrounding the formation of teams. Leanne highlights teams forming, storming, and norming. Part of this process is getting clarity on what the team is trying to achieve and your role in delivery of the mission. If your manager isn’t providing that clarity, it’s ok to be curious and seek it out.
  • John speaks about some administrative responsibilities of management and needing certain tasks complete by team members based on weekly deadline. There were people he consistently had to remind to complete the tasks and those that never needed to be reminded. Having a much larger team makes it even more important to be clear on required tasks and deadlines which will help the team deliver.
    • What if we asked our manager whether letting them know something was completed before a deadline would make their job easier?
    • “If you say you really want to stand out in a team, how many of your teammates…are going to say…‘how do I make your job easier? How do I make you look great to your boss?’ How many people would think to ask that question? So, if you are looking for that one hack…that seems to be it….” – Al Elliott
    • Leanne would add that managers should be gracious to team members who do miss the deadlines and try to figure out why it happens (seeking to understand the barriers to task completion). Team members may be overloaded or may need to go through the process again to fully understand it. Neurodiverse colleagues can benefit from strategies like body doubling.
    • Leanne reminds us that very few people seek to do a bad job and are doing it to be annoying. In the cases where they do, it would fall under workplace incivility. When only a handful of team members are not meeting deadlines, it could very well be there is something they do not understand.
    • John assumes good intentions even when people miss deadlines and likes the idea of grace from the manager seat. These scenarios can be opportunities to coach and to understand what might be underlying specific behavior.
    • Leanne recounts someone she managed being exceptional in all aspects of their role but the administrative paperwork. This person would miss deadlines, and it caused downstream problems. Listen closely to how she handled it and what happened next.
      • “My breakthrough moment was when I said, ‘I can’t make you look good if you’re not giving me the outcomes. I know how great you are. But the people above me, they don’t know how great you are. They’re just looking at outcomes on a spreadsheet.’ And that for her was that connection….” – Leanne Elliott, on helping one of her direct reports understand the importance of administrative tasks
    • Al mentions a French teacher from his school days who knew he was skilled in French but couldn’t grade him that way because he didn’t turn in homework. After the conversation with the teacher, Al changed his behavior and earned a good grade.
    • In each of these examples (the manager, the teacher) made it clear they wanted someone to do well.
    • “What a great rule of management. You want to be a great manager? Champion your people. Celebrate them. Show off their achievements, and let them know…that you are on their side and you want to show off their achievements. Because that as a manager makes me look great. If my team is smashing it, then I’m doing a great job too. We’re all on the same side. We’re all going to win together…. Imagine sitting down with your boss, and they said to you, ‘I’m on your side. I want to celebrate everything you do.’” – Leanne Elliott
    • Al says one might be tempted to think that on a large team others have to lose in order for you to win, but we shouldn’t think that way. It does not have to be a zero-sum game.
    • This idea of showing a team member you are on their side is a coaching moment. Delivering a message of “help me help you” with compassion and honesty can be very effective.
    • Al mentions a recent interview with Jeff LeBlanc who did a study on kindness in leadership. In that discussion they talked a lot about the TV show Ted Lasso. Jeff LeBlanc feels Ted Lasso as a character portrays the perfect manager – a blend of kindness, thoughtfulness, humility, and an unwillingness to give up on people.
      • Nick has never seen the show but will consider watching it now. Check it out and let us know what you think.
      • John reference’s Ted Lasso’s commitment to a process for improving the team over the outcome of winning.

27:27 – Introspection Gives Us Control

  • Is there a secondary theme in what we talked about of encouraging individual contributors to be entrepreneurs of their own reputation? Think about wanting to start something, wanting to solve problems, etc. Maybe we could apply this to our own reputation and ensure it’s strong?
    • Al says in some ways an entrepreneur might not like taking instruction.
    • “Most people want to do a good job. Most people want to be recognized for doing a good job. Is it not as simple as…well, what does a good job look like? Let me just strive to do that every single day. And then all the hacks and tricks and building your internal brand up through an organization or being entrepreneur, it doesn’t matter…. People just go, ‘Bob…he always delivers a day early, and it’s always exceptional work. And do you know what? If he’s got a problem or someone’s got a problem on a Friday afternoon, he’ll drop what he’s doing and go over and help them and then go back and finish his work. Be more Bob.’” – Al Elliott
    • Leanne says this thought gives us control in a work environment where we feel we are lacking control. Here are some introspective questions for those feeling unsafe at work, fearful of losing their job, or who have been laid off:
      • What type of professional do I want to be?
      • What does meaningful work look like to me?
      • What do I want to be remembered for?
      • What do I want to be known for?
      • What work makes me proud?
      • Who am I as a person?
      • What are my values? Examples are things like kindness, a belief in equity, etc.
      • “It’s such a wonderful moment to actually think about what do I want work to mean to me. And in that will come an intentionality around the behaviors you enact and the way you operate in the world and your workplace…. You will craft that, whatever you want to call it – that brand, that presence, that Bob…. But I think it’s a wonderful time to do that introspection and think about exactly what it is you want to do, how you want to do it, where you want to do it…and that intentionality will trickle over time. In a world of uncertainty, what a wonderful way to feel like we’re gaining / taking some control back.” – Leanne Elliott

31:03 – Creating Content for the Chaotic World of Work

  • As podcasters, Al and Leanne have to be very intentional about the content they create and put out into the world. The theme of a podcast can change and be refined over time. What have Al and Leanne learned from this process, and what have they learned about what culture is and is not as a result?

    • When Al and Leanne started Truth, Lies, and Work it was about helping business owners and leaders and sharing best practices for environments that did not have the type of support internally from HR professionals or business psychologists. This intention is still at the core of the show.
    • The changes to the show since its inception have been in line with the chaos the world of work has been through over time. They added a second episode per week called This Week in Work to help address issues no one else was addressing.
      • There have been poor practices from business leaders such as attacking specific groups of people or in handling mass layoffs that have a much deeper impact on human experience and organizational effectiveness.
      • “So, it’s calling out bad practice like that that is being promoted in mainstream news that this is a great thing an organization is doing. It’s not, and this is why.” – Leanne Elliott, on This Week in Work
    • This Week in Work is mainly 3 segments:
      • Looking at the new stories of the week – including a recent story about a company called BrewDog and steps taken to try and fix its toxic culture
      • Highlighting hot takes or good thoughts from lesser-known industry names (i.e., occupational psychology students, new entrepreneurs, those who want to support a cause, etc.)
      • Workplace surgery – questions from listeners sent in via e-mail and social media (many of which are now coming from employees instead of business owners)
    • “We’re doing episodes per week, and every single week we try and make it just 1% better. And some weeks we make it 1% worse…. The core thing we want people to get is that culture isn’t about having the perfect workplace. It’s about just trying to be a decent human being whether you are a manager, whether you are a business owner, whether you’re HR, whether you’re just on the ground pulling the cord. Just be a decent human being and try your very best, and over time, it will get better….” – Al Elliott
    • Leanne says they have also let ideas shared by guests inform the content for the show.
    • “It’s moments like that as well. It’s picking up what we learn from people who are infinitely smarter than we are and figuring out ways and how we as podcasters can expand that conversation for our learning and for our audience as well.” – Leanne Elliott

  • Remember to check out Truth, Lies and Work…

Mentioned in the Outro

  • According to Brendon Burchard, the author of High Performance Habits, one of the six habits of high performers is to seek clarity.
    • Maybe you feel like you should have already gained role clarity and are worried about asking. You don’t have to wait for an organizational change or a change of managers to ask the question if you really don’t have the clarity you need.
    • We take a job based on a certain job description at the time of hire, and that has likely changed over time. We may just need our manager to refine the definition of success for us.
    • Maybe there is a skill you have learned that could fill a gap on the current team. Without talking to your manager, you might miss an opportunity to stand out.
  • The introspective questions Leanne shared were also to help us gain clarity about what we want from our work and what we value. Much like the thesis or focus of a podcast, the answers to these questions can be different over time as we grow and learn.
    • The answers to these questions may indicate you really want to do something different or need to seek fulfillment outside of your job for the time being.
    • We can keep asking ourselves these questions and pay attention to whether the answers change.
  • If you want more resources for dealing with uncertainty, remember to visit these pages:
    • Our Layoff Resources Page with the most impactful discussions on the topic of layoffs with experts like Leanne Elliott and technologists not so different from you.
    • Our Career Uncertainty Action Guide with the 5 pillars of career resilience and AI prompts to help you work through overwhelm, financial planning, and a layoff scenario
    • Remember to subscribe to Truth, Lies and Work
    • Listen all the way to the end for some fun!

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