Posted on by Nick Korte

Dial in Your Dopamine: Motivation, Focus, and the ADHD Brain at Work with Skye Waterson (1/2)

Podcast: Play in new window | Download

Subscribe: Apple Podcasts | Spotify | TuneIn | RSS | More

Are push notifications directing your day? While useful in some ways, push notifications can also become a huge distraction, especially for the ADHD brain. This week in episode 313 we’re joined by Skye Waterson, a former academic turned business owner and ADHD coach, to discuss practical strategies for staying focused in your work.

Since dopamine levels affect our motivation, we might need to make adjustments to our dopamine levels to help increase our focus whether we work in an office or from home. Skye will explore some of the unique challenges of working from home with ADHD, thoughts on the ADHD brain’s struggle with procrastination, and the importance of clarifying our daily priorities. We also discuss the purpose of developing daily routines that will decrease stress and support working memory.

Original Recording Date: 12-29-2024

Topics – A Different Perspective on ADHD in Our Careers, Baselining ADHD and Work Environments, Motivation and Dopamine at Work, Working from Home and Managing Distractions, Developing Purposeful Routines, Communication Preferences and Managing Push Notifications, Procrastination and Prioritization

2:11 – A Different Perspective on ADHD in Our Careers

3:15 – Baselining ADHD and Work Environments

  • How would Skye define what ADHD is and is not?
    • ADHD is a persistent and pervasive struggle with executive functioning (an area where Skye is heavily focused), impulsivity, and emotional dysregulation. This comes from shifts in the brain as seen in the neuroscience.
    • Skye tells us the DSM-5 is most commonly used for diagnosing ADHD. The DSM-5 is a set of criteria and questions one would get asked by a professional (usually as psychiatrist but could be other professionals depending on your country) to diagnose ADHD. There are slightly different criteria to diagnose ADHD depending on whether you’re a child or an adult.
    • When diagnosing adults, professionals are looking for whether your struggles have been pervasive over time.
    • There are two primary types of ADHD:
  • These types are going to play out in our careers. What might ADHD look like for someone who works in technology?
    • Skye says this can look like many different things. Work environments can look like Google, a place where there is a lot of flexibility and freedom. Environments like this also force you to manage your own time. Doing technology work for the government, for example, may not allow flexibility in the applications you get to use. In some cases, Skye has worked with clients who were employed by a government and were not allowed to use their phones at work.
    • Overall, it depends on the level of flexibility your work environment will allow.
    • “Mostly we’re thinking about how do you focus on the work you have to do? How do you prioritize that work when new things are coming in all the time? And how do you stay motivated to keep doing it consistently?” – Skye Waterson

6:17 – Motivation and Dopamine at Work

  • Motivation is something we all need. What are some of the motivation challenges for the ADHD brain when hit with something that is not very exciting?
    • Skye tells us neuroscience and ADHD are areas of current active research.
    • The neurotypical individual, when starting a task, usually has some type of spike in the brain’s reward center for starting a task (i.e. a spike in dopamine). In the ADHD brain, however, this spike doesn’t really happen and might need some help.
      • Skye says people with ADHD will say they feel lazy as a result of this. In reality it is the brain doing different things in different ways.
      • People with ADHD need to add some dopamine to get to the same place. Skye equates this scenario to being underpaid in rewards.
  • Adding dopamine certainly can help the ADHD brain with motivation, but it can be helpful on a wider scale as well. But how?
    • Skye worked with the New Zealand Intelligence Services and the District Health Board. After providing some strategies to help personnel with ADHD, these organizations recognized the strategies could be helpful on a much wider scale internally.
    • “Everyone has a down day like you said, but we struggle with it the most.” – Skye Waterson, on the ADHD brain and motivation
    • Skye took all of the research she’s studied and turned it into a program called Focused Balanced Days. The intent is to help people move from inconsistent to consistent.
    • Skye says at a high level we can add sensory things and stack them. It’s not about just rewarding ourselves with something to eat because taste is 1 of the 5 senses. We can often be understimulated across the 5 senses rather than overstimulated as many might think.
    • “If you’re talking about a workplace, for example, you might say, ‘ok, what can I bring to work that I can touch, that I can taste, that I can smell, that I can see that’s going to help…raise the level of stimulation to help me stay focused at work?” – Skye Waterson
    • If we take working in an office as an example, does strategically planning to get coffee from the break room help?
      • This is a start, but Skye would encourage us to think about what we can have at our desk in an office. This can be a little tricky.
      • Could you bring a fidget that looks like a key ring or even a Rubik’s cube?
      • Note taking can allow fidgeting also because it allows switching between doodling and taking notes.
      • If there’s a blank wall around you at the office, can anything be added to the wall?
      • Likely we cannot do much about smell in an office.
      • Can you use / wear headphones at the office? They can be used for noise reduction, adding in some type of different noise / sound, or for listening to something. You could also consider using earbuds and putting in only one of them. This works well when the earbud is Bluetooth connected to your phone. It allows one tap to turn on / off so you can have a conversation with anyone who walks up to your desk.
      • Skye mentions she has leveraged the single earbud strategy at times to provide a distraction from unpleasant things like going to the doctor. She will listen to music or a podcast.
  • What about asking to sit in a different area because the area where you are now is too distracting?
    • Skye says this is definitely worth asking about but can get political at times. It will depend on how willing your management are to accommodate this kind of request. This is something to think about when seeking the right type of work environment for you.
    • Skye would encourage us to align what we want with the goals of the company in order to improve the chances of getting what we want. Sitting somewhere else would help you contribute to the company goals / mission better or faster, etc. because you are less distracted.
    • “You could be in a busy traffic area and just chat to everybody all day and get super distracted. It’s not going to be great for the workplace, so that’s kind of the key.” – Skye Waterson, on moving your desk to prevent distractions

13:48 – Working from Home and Managing Distractions

  • How can we minimize distractions while working from home but also increase dopamine levels / number of sensations available?
    • “This is a tricky one because when you’re talking about the workplace, often you’re talking about external distractions. When you’re talking about the home, we can still be talking about external distractions, but we’re more talking about internal motivation…because everything can feel more important than the work.” – Skye Waterson
    • Skye hears people talk about various tasks that keep them from accomplishing anything when working from home. Examples we discuss are cleaning a room, doing the dishes, etc.
    • At home, we are more susceptible to procrastivity, which is doing something that feels productive to procrastinate on doing something we don’t want to do.
    • Send Skye a message on Instagram with the words “Nerd Journey Focus” in the message body to get a document explaining some of the things we are about to discuss.
    • We have to step into focus at home. Part of this is working through the resistance we feel. At work, there are opportunities for “body doubling,” which can be very helpful to the ADHD brain. But at home, you likely will work by yourself and might have people in other rooms of the house doing other things.
    • Skye recommends having a dedicated space for work. You want to prevent the pull of needing to organize something. You don’t want too much clutter. Skye is not saying you need to organize a bunch of things before you can get work accomplished. Just keep it out of your sight and away from distracting you.
    • Stepping into focus means you’re moving yourself from being distracted and unmotivated to working and focused.
      • Especially when you’re at home, reward yourself for starting (some kind of dopamine reward). Maybe it’s reading an article, listening to music, and having a cup of tea. When people question giving themselves a reward, Skye might remind the person how much less time this will take than doomscrolling social media.
    • Should the music be instrumental only, with lyrics, or does it matter when it comes to stepping into focus?
      • Skye mentions there are a lot of discussions about the idea of a dopamine detox
      • With ADHD, Skye recommends dialing down your dopamine but not turning it off completely. It’s difficult for the ADHD brain to dial down dopamine from 100 to 0.
      • If we start stepping into focus by reading an article, Skye recommends switching to either a podcast or to music with lyrics next. At this point you would turn off any distractions and write down the task you want to complete during this time period (which supports working memory and is a very important step). Maybe then you feel less distracted than when you were reading the article but decide to switch to music without lyrics to prevent distractions while you open an application and start to use it.
      • “I like to imagine it as turning down the dial. You have a big dial, one of those old school dials that clicks, and you’re adjusting the dial…. This is my level of distraction, so I’m not going to suddenly try and sit in silence. That’s never going to work. I’m going to instead try listening to a podcast because I would probably do that. Once I’m more focused I might turn off that and switch to music with lyrics, etc.” – Skye Waterson
    • Check out this menu of ideas to increase dopamine, also called a dopamenu.
  • What about number of monitors / screens? Is having 2 monitors too distracting?
    • Skye likes 2 monitors because of working memory.
    • People with ADHD really struggle with working memory. Switching between tabs can be a challenge (i.e. forgetting what was on the first as you switch to the second). Having 2 screens allows you to have multiple tabs open at the same time and supports working memory.
  • Is changing your environment by going to a coffee shop a reward or too distracting for the ADHD brain?
    • “Some people find that over stimulating. The thing about ADHD I will say is that different scenarios are different levels of stimulation for different people. With ADHD it also depends on the task. My recommendation is have a toolbox of different environments you want to work in and adjust it based on you. But for a lot of people, working in a coffee shop can be really helpful. It can be the difference between getting something written and not getting something written. I know for me, I do all my writing in coffee shops because it’s too distracting to do it at home. But if I’m in a coffee shop and I have a coffee in front of me, I have the stimulation I need to step into focus.” – Skye Waterson
    • This is going to be different for everyone, but if going to a coffee shop helps you focus, Skye would encourage you to keep doing it. The price of the coffee is worth it!
  • Maybe we should approach this with the mindset of experimentation. Would Skye encourage us to journal on how focused we feel when we experiment?
    • When people work with Skye, she asks them to commit to experimentation. The commitment is to try and then adjust once you know what is and is not working. This process is like untangling a ball of yarn / string.
    • It is challenging to experiment when you do not have the strategies and the systems in place to know and understand what went wrong.

21:44 – Developing Purposeful Routines

  • A travel-heavy role certainly may require some experimentation. Travel could be local, regional, or otherwise. What can we do to help ourselves stay structured if we have to travel?
    • Traveling can be tricky with ADHD according to Skye. She suggests keeping your routine and adjusting it when you travel.
    • “I recommend people have routines they can stretch and squish down, so they can sort of stretch it out or squish it down.” – Skye Waterson
    • Skye gives the example routine of waking up, doing some journaling, having coffee, having breakfast, and then getting in some movement.
      • Movement is a great way to support working memory.
    • In a travel situation, Skye might shorten the example routine above to journal only a few words, getting breakfast, and then doing ten jumping jacks.
      • “…so that’s kind of a very squished down version, but you’re keeping the routine. You’re not breaking the routine. This is also really helpful for the holidays.” – Skye Waterson
    • There’s also a planning element needed to avoid being late for things when you travel.
      • “Sometimes when people travel, they…decide to give up all of the ADHD strategies that they’ve learned that work. We’re always ADHD all the time. So, you want to be using those strategies whether you’re at work, whether you’re on holiday…it’s the same thing. You want to go ahead and schedule what you’re going to do in your calendar. And schedule transition times as well because with ADHD we really struggle with transitions. And we love to think we can teleport, but we can’t.” – Skye Waterson
    • Skye recommends planning your prep time as well as your leave time (put time for each on your calendar). This can help prevent being consistently late or consistently too early, decrease stress, and make effective use of transition times.
      • Even if you are never late, feeling like you’re almost late can increase your stress level.
  • Nick likes the idea of having routines each morning or even before certain activities. It seems to be very stoic. What is the purpose of the routine according to Skye?
    • The routine supports emotional regulation, addressing physical needs (like eating / fueling your body), and working memory. It also gives an opportunity to get some dopamine (a dose of fun in the morning).
    • We know from research that movement supports working memory, and this is especially important for those with ADHD.
  • Does journaling increase dopamine as well if it’s part of a routine?
    • There’s a growing understanding of ADHD and emotional dysregulation. Things like relaxing, reducing, grounding, and calming all become important.
    • Skye personally likes journaling, but her podcast producer actually finds journaling stressful and would prefer to mindfully do something else. Skye recommends listeners pursue some form of mindfulness that allows a release or reduction of thoughts in our heads to bring a sense of calm. She would recommend everyone do something for themselves in this way.
    • Personal development guru and high-performance coach Brendon Burchard has spoken about the benefits of consistent journaling for stress reduction.
    • Is there a specific type of journaling the ADHD brain should focus on, like just writing your thoughts (more like morning pages) or perhaps choosing a specific topic?
    • On Skye’s podcast, The ADHD Skills Lab, they frequently discuss research topics, and as of right now, there does not seem to be a specific type of journaling that suits the ADHD brain best.
    • On a personal level, Skye likes using the morning pages system.
      • It’s all just about getting to a place where you have a little bit more distance between your thoughts and your actions. Because when you have ADHD, we are more impulsive…. And so, we just want to take a minute in the morning if we can and just remind ourselves about that separation. And that’s really what the purpose is." – Skye Waterson

28:07 – Communication Preferences and Managing Push Notifications

  • In communication, is there a medium that a working person with ADHD might prefer over others? Is it e-mail, text, phone call, instant message / chat, etc.?
    • Skye says there is no one medium that is particularly good for everyone with ADHD, but most people with ADHD will have a strongly held preference for one particular communication medium.
    • There are other learning difficulties that can be connected to having ADHD like dyscalculia, dyslexia, or something else. This could be part of the reason people with ADHD have a strong preference.
      • Some people will need to write things down, some will need to say it out loud, some will need to hear it, etc.
      • Usually, people will have 1 or 2 communication mediums they really appreciate, but it will come down to the person.
    • Skye often works with people supporting entrepreneurs. If she were coaching someone on how to communicate to a team, consider the following…
      • Slack, for example, allows audio messages to be sent and will include a transcript of the audio messages. Platforms with a transcript option can be very helpful if people who need to receive the message are not auditory receivers.
      • Platforms are making it easier to communicate with different types of people like transcribing uploaded videos as well.
  • Should we expect colleagues with ADHD to tell us their preference of communication medium, or should we get better at asking them what they need?
    • People with ADHD may not be able to pinpoint what works the best for them. Skye says it’s about understanding people and paying attention. For example, does someone never respond to your written messages?
    • We might have to share some observations with a colleague and make a suggestion based on our observations.
  • What about handling push notifications from the applications we use? How can the ADHD brain prevent these from being too distracting?
    • Skye says push notifications are terrible for the ADHD brain, and they should be removed immediately.
    • Overall, Skye encourages people to have a rhythm to their day. The reason Skye concentrates on focused balanced days and focused balanced business growth is to make it easier to remember when things need to be done.
    • “Decide your rhythm for checking things, and then turn off all other notifications except for the emergency contact…. That would be my recommendation when it comes to push notifications…just aggressively remove them from every single app you get.” – Skye Waterson
      • The above applies to checking e-mail (which you might do at specific times of day, etc.) and all other notifications.
    • Even with notifications turned off, you might find you reflexively open a specific app on your phone or computer. To stop yourself from checking it as much, try putting the shortcut to the app in a different place on your phone / computer (i.e. not on the home screen or bookmarks bar).
    • How does the shift to no push notifications look to other people you work with? Maybe some people manage this transition better than others?
      • If you’re planning to do this at work, you may need to have a conversation similar to the one about moving desks. Skye says this is the digital version of moving desks.
    • When Skye works with clients, detailed advice in this area is also about what their job role requires from a communication standpoint. If the person needs to respond to e-mails within 10 minutes, that is going to look different than needing to respond within 24 hours might.
      • For example, being unreachable for 2 hours to focus on a specific task or set of tasks unless someone calls you is probably going to be fine.
      • “The biggest problem you’re actually going to have is that now, the source of dopamine that you were using and justifying, which was checking your e-mail, is now gone. So, you might have to dial down your dopamine. The most stimulating thing you might be doing all day is checking your e-mails.” – Skye Waterson
      • Perhaps you could listen to more podcasts in the background while you work. Once you start checking e-mail less, as Skye and many others have learned, you might realize that checking e-mail or other analytics was your way of procrastivity (avoiding other things).
      • If you spend all your time looking for the perfect app for something, it might be procrastinating!

36:06 – Procrastination and Prioritization

  • “You could almost call ADHD struggles with procrastination. That could almost be an alternative title for ADHD. Because when…you’re talking about the general idea of working memory and time blindness and all of those things…one of the reasons we procrastinate is…the thing is too boring, the thing is too emotionally salient…or it’s too confusing. So sometimes rather than addressing or understanding the reasons I’m not doing this project, we will just go off on a million different side quests and never come back to the project.” – Skye Waterson
    • Skye tells us there’s no formally agreed upon definition of executive functioning.
    • All the side quests mentioned in the quote above make us feel like we’ve accomplished something.
  • Send Skye a message on Instagram with the words “Nerd Journey Prioritization,” and she will send you a doc on this topic.
    • There is a prioritization filter which can be optimized when Skye works with clients as a way to keep them from procrastinating.
    • “I’ve done this prioritization filter so many times with people…. If you have more than 5 things to do today and more than 10 things to do this week, you’re probably not prioritizing correctly. Most of us only have that number. We could have some subtasks maybe, but for most of us that should be the number we’re working at. Ninety percent of people I haven’t seen go over that number once they do the filtering.” – Skye Waterson
    • If your task list seems too full, Skye would advise you to consider the following:
      • What can be delegated?
      • Can something you took on from someone else be given back to that person (i.e. a catch and release)?
      • “What needs to be done today or there will be a significant external negative consequence? And if that’s not the case, it doesn’t have to be done today. It could be done today. It might be that it’s important and you want to do it today. We can bring it back in. But we don’t have to run around with this, ‘it has to be done today or everything’s gonna fall apart’ because it doesn’t have a significant external negative consequence.” – Skye Waterson
    • Skye struggled in this area quite a bit, especially when she was in academia. She tells the story of telling people she would complete things by Friday and then work late into the night on them. When her husband asked who the work was for, Skye began to realize she was trying to complete too many things by Friday that had manufactured deadlines (the ones she made for herself).
      • Nick says some of this could be because we said we would do something by a certain date, and we want to be seen as reliable.
      • “And it’s a real trap with ADHD because we have time blindness, so often the deadlines we’re creating were unrealistic to start with.” – Skye Waterson
      • One of the most effective things we can do in the workplace is put a clock in a visible place so that people in meetings or at their desks can see time passing and be less susceptible to time blindness.

Mentioned in the Outro

  • Did you turn off your push notifications after listening to that episode?
    • Skye is encouraging us to manage notifications and distractions so we can have more periods of focus throughout our days.
    • Getting more periods of focus each day aligns with the principles of Deep Work that Cal Newport write about and that we reviewed in Episode 141 through Episode 147.
    • Dopamine hits from checking e-mail and other notifications sound like the hiding places Jon Acuff mentioned in his book Finish. We discussed hiding places in detail in Episode 273 as part of a 4-part book review series of Finish.
    • Remember also the managing of notifications and prioritization filter will depend on the responsibilities of your job. If you need help refining these 1-1, consider getting a coach.
  • The Unconventional Organisation site has a number of fantastic blog articles you can find here.
  • Remember to check out Skye’s podcast, The ADHD Skills Lab.

Contact the Hosts

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *